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 Jinzo-Returner/Hand Destruction

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Divine Phoenix
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PostSubject: Jinzo-Returner/Hand Destruction   Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:17 am

Hand Destruction reads "Each player sends 2 cards from their hand to the graveyard and draws 2 cards".

If jinzo returner is sent to the graveyard by the effect of hand destruction would it get it's effect?

The wording of hand destruction makes it seem like sending 2 cards to the graveyard and drawing 2 cards resolve as part of the same chain link and should be considered to occur simultaneosly...

According to RONIN, this seems like it should work because of the ruling for peten the dark clown and sky scourge norleras...

Hand Destruction reads "Each player sends 2 cards from their hand to the graveyard and draws 2 cards".

If jinzo returner is sent to the graveyard by the effect of hand destruction would it get it's effect?

The wording of hand destruction makes it seem like sending 2 cards to the graveyard and drawing 2 cards resolve as part of the same chain link and should be considered to occur simultaneosly...

According to RONIN, this seems like it should work because of the ruling for peten the dark clown and sky scourge norleras...

"Sending all cards on the field and in both players' hands to the Graveyard and drawing one card are resolved as part of the same Chain Link, and are considered to occur simultaneously (even though the card is drawn after sending cards to the Graveyard). So a card like "Peten the Dark Clown" would not miss the timing even though a card is drawn."-FROM RONIN-
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jayfriend969
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PostSubject: Re: Jinzo-Returner/Hand Destruction   Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:25 am

Nope, Hand Destruction is a cost for the user of the card, but not the other player.

If you Hand Destruction a Jinzo-Returner, Dark World, or Peten effects are not there.
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Zeraku
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PostSubject: Re: Jinzo-Returner/Hand Destruction   Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:49 am

It should work, because Hand Destruction is not a cost. Hand Destruction's sent and draw happen on the same chain link, and therefor, cards like Peten, Dark World, and Jinzo Returner do not miss there timing, and will activate.

The key word in Hand Destruction's efffect is bolded: "Each player sends 2 cards from their hand to the graveyard AND draws 2 cards".

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Divine Phoenix
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PostSubject: Re: Jinzo-Returner/Hand Destruction   Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:09 pm

Here's the problem: AND is the key word here, and is what is in question...

Card Destruction uses the word and and is ruled that it doesn't work with peten the dark clown, but Norleras' is ruled that is does...

It seems that these rulings should conflict... So I'm looking either for an offical ruling, or moreso, an explanation as to why each of those are ruled differently...

Hand destruction is worded almost exlactly like card destruction and would probably be ruled the same... But Norleras seems to contradict that, so why is that???

(Also, with the rulings reversal for continuous traps, might there be a similar occurance with this scenario)?
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Jinzo-Returner/Hand Destruction

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